Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/09/1999 01:05 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                                                                                
HB 151 - REVOCATION OF MINOR DRIVER'S LICENSE                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the next order of business is HB 151, "An                                                               
Act relating to revocation and reinstatement of the driver's                                                                    
license of a person at least 14 but not yet 21 years of age."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated the committee will take up the committee                                                                
substitute for HB 151 [1-LS0492\N, Ford, 3/30/99].                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1815                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called for a brief at-east at 2:41 p.m. and called                                                                
the meeting back to order at 2:44 p.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1844                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LOREN JONES, Director, Central Office, Division of Alcoholism and                                                               
Drug Abuse, Department of Health and Social Services, came before                                                               
the committee to testify.  There is a significant number of                                                                     
children who continue to use and lose their driver's licenses.                                                                  
Generally, when looking at a deterrent, there is a perception of                                                                
getting caught with a penalty that is swiftly applied.  He's not                                                                
sure, however, that works with children because they feel they are                                                              
fairly omnipotent.  Last year, the Administration sponsored SB 71                                                               
which transferred the approval of alcohol information schools from                                                              
the Division of Motor Vehicles [Department of Administration] to                                                                
the Division of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse [Department of Health and                                                             
Social Services].  The division felt that would allow it to develop                                                             
alcohol information that was age-appropriate.  Right now, the only                                                              
thing available to a 16-year-old who looses his driver's license is                                                             
a school primarily for adult drunk drivers.  That is not an                                                                     
appropriate place for a 16-year-old to learn about the use of                                                                   
alcohol and drugs or intervention.  The division also proposed                                                                  
funding local assessments to allow each community to work with                                                                  
their courts, school systems, youth programs and prevention                                                                     
programs to better intervene in that community.  But, it costs                                                                  
money.  He noted about four years ago, Representative Porter                                                                    
chaired a House task force on alcohol and one of his                                                                            
recommendations was to increase the license reinstatement fee from                                                              
$100 to $250.  That has passed, but for only a second offense.                                                                  
Last year, the department proposed an increase for a first offense.                                                             
The revenues would have paid for a lot of the services proposed.                                                                
He further noted that HB 11 has passed, a graduated driver's                                                                    
license.  That bill took the principles of SB 77, but it didn't                                                                 
include a fiscal note.  As a result, the division now has the                                                                   
responsibility for alcohol information schools without the                                                                      
commensurate staff.  The license reinstatement fee didn't pass, so                                                              
there is no revenue to fund local communities in order to make this                                                             
effort on their own.  The division would propose looking at how to                                                              
generate services in communities to appropriately intervene the                                                                 
first time; to make the penalties more meaningful to youth, based                                                               
on what a community believes is best for their children, along with                                                             
any school penalty; and, to allow the division to get seed money                                                                
out to them.  The legal mechanisms are in place, in law, but there                                                              
isn't the funding even for the current "Use It, Lose It" law to                                                                 
work better and to reduce the number of children committing second                                                              
and third offenses.  Last year, some kids testified that they knew                                                              
of the law, but they believed that they would never get caught,                                                                 
that they didn't think about it when they used it, and that it                                                                  
didn't cross their minds on a Saturday night.  They know about it,                                                              
but they never think about losing their driver's license.  It's                                                                 
more of an adult model; the kids don't see the penalty as being as                                                              
bad as adults do.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES further said, in relation to the issue of designated                                                                  
drivers, that while a person can drive at 16 years of age he or she                                                             
is not a very skilled driver.  The last thing that he wanted was                                                                
his sober 16 year old with a car full of drunks.  That is not a                                                                 
very good position for an unskilled driver.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-27, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES continued.  He would appreciate a state trooper stopping                                                              
and checking out situations like that than for his child to take                                                                
that kind of risk.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0060                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT said, as a parent, the last thing he every wanted was                                                             
his daughter or son to crawl into a car with five drunks,                                                                       
especially if they were also drunk.  As a parent, he would rather                                                               
have his sober daughter in a car with five drunk girlfriends than                                                               
have her read in a newspaper the next day that here friends were                                                                
killed because she didn't take the lead as a sober person and drive                                                             
them home.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0126                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI said she has always felt that the                                                                      
designated driver message is wonderful for adults, but it is                                                                    
confusing for minors.  She asked Mr. Jones whether he has given any                                                             
thought on taking the provisions of the "Use It, Lose It" law and                                                               
instead of revoking a driver's license requiring community work                                                                 
service.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0231                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES replied the communities approach that in different ways.                                                              
In small communities, such as Kotzebue, the superior court judge                                                                
handles the cases.  In real small communities, the magistrate                                                                   
handles them.  The judge makes the intervention and typically holds                                                             
in-advance the charge until the child has completed certain aspects                                                             
of what is available in the community.  In large communities, such                                                              
as Anchorage, where there are lots of judges and magistrates that                                                               
is not always possible.  Often times, the district court judges                                                                 
will give the kid a card of a local program, such as Volunteers of                                                              
America or Alaskans For a Drug Free Youth that might have something                                                             
to offer.  In Juneau, there is a network and the district court                                                                 
judge and police let the programs know which kids have been picked                                                              
up and which have been in court.  The programs actively outreach to                                                             
the parents.  He reiterated there are various community approaches.                                                             
They aren't consistent and there aren't any standards established.                                                              
Some operate on a shoestring budget.  The division would like to                                                                
help coalesce those ideas and put together  information, so that                                                                
all of the communities would be aware of how to work with the                                                                   
district court judges, local police departments, and local DMV                                                                  
[Division of Motor Vehicles] offices to identify these kids and                                                                 
intervene early.  Part of the age-appropriate education would                                                                   
include some type of community work service.  And, for those kids                                                               
that don't get the message the first couple of times, there would                                                               
be more of an assessment including counseling issues and long-term                                                              
treatment.  There are some good models out there.  The division                                                                 
thinks that it could offer some funding and structure to                                                                        
communities in order to help them get to more of the kids and to be                                                             
more effective.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0458                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Jones to clarify the distinction                                                              
between the larger and smaller communities.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES replied in Kotzebue there is a single judge that hears                                                                
all the cases.  That judge has taken it upon himself to make sure                                                               
that some community intervention is done with all the kids.  In                                                                 
Anchorage, on the other hand where there are eight to ten district                                                              
judges and two to three magistrates there isn't consistency.  There                                                             
are a lot of other agencies involved as well:  state troopers,                                                                  
police departments, and others for example.  It takes more of a                                                                 
systematic approach of getting all those involved to buy into a                                                                 
system.  It could work in Anchorage; it would just take more of an                                                              
effort to make sure all involved are on board.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0542                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked Mr. Jones what would it cost to fund                                                              
an alcohol school for juveniles.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. JONES replied, according to the fiscal note last year, it would                                                             
cost $100,000 for the division to manage the renewal for quality                                                                
assurance and policy, and $500,000 for grants to local communities                                                              
on a competitive process.  Changing the reinstatement fees would                                                                
have raised over $1 million, and the division was proposing to use                                                              
about one-half of that money.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0615                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[THE RECORD REFLECTS THAT RONALD JORDAN'S TESTIMONY WAS                                                                         
INTERMITTENTLY AUDIBLE]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
RONALD JORDAN testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  He                                                                  
believes that there should be an breath alcohol test required when                                                              
there is a presumption of consumption of alcohol.  There seems to                                                               
be an issue of accusing those who haven't consumed any alcohol.                                                                 
For example, some officers can't tell the difference between                                                                    
O'Douls and Budweiser without a blood alcohol test.  In addition,                                                               
he has heard that people are losing their driver's licenses for a                                                               
.003 alcohol level, which is basically one to two tablespoons of                                                                
Robitussen.  Those issues could be addressed by using a breath                                                                  
alcohol test.  He noted for a prescribed dose of Robitussen, a                                                                  
person shows up as a .003 to .005 alcohol level, but if a person                                                                
drank the bottle it shows up at .123, which is a level of                                                                       
intoxication in Alaska.  These issues need to be addressed and                                                                  
corrected.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0941                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Jordan whether there is alcohol                                                               
in some root beer.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. JORDAN replied Henry Weinhard's root beer contains a one-half                                                               
of one percent alcohol level.  In conducting a study of airline                                                                 
passengers drinking O'Douls, Budweiser and root beer, three root                                                                
beers showed in one hour a .005 alcohol level; and three                                                                        
Budweiser's showed in one hour a .076 alcohol level.  According to                                                              
the state, any alcohol is a violation.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1022                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN HYDE, President, Good Legislation Assures Democracy                                                                       
(G.L.A.D.), testified via teleconference from Kenai.  He noted                                                                  
G.L.A.D. was formed out of concern on AS 28.15.183, which HB 151                                                                
addresses.  He is a father and is very concerned about drug and                                                                 
alcohol use.  However, there is a recent appeals court ruling that                                                              
determined AS 28.15.183 was unconstitutional because driver's                                                                   
licenses were being removed for non-driving offenses.  In addition,                                                             
there is a justice system in place that is intended to help with                                                                
the administration and enforcement of laws, but the administrative                                                              
process through the DMV is adding a double jeopardy type of                                                                     
situation.  The young are being subject to criminal procedures and                                                              
often being sent off as not guilty or having their cases dismissed                                                              
then having to go to a DMV hearing to be found guilty with a                                                                    
revocation imposed.  It is a legal situation, but it is wrong.  The                                                             
40 members participating in G.L.A.D. have heard that kids are                                                                   
losing their driver's license, but not taking it very seriously.                                                                
They figure that they won't get caught again or go ahead and drive                                                              
without a license.  He originally had assumed that taking a                                                                     
driver's license made sense, but it is not working.  The testimony                                                              
yesterday [April 8, 1999] indicated that the kids are not taking it                                                             
seriously.  They are being forced to obey a law that maybe they                                                                 
don't understand.  They don't understand when a judge finds them                                                                
innocent, but another person says that they can't have their                                                                    
license.  It puts a level of doubt on the justice system.  He                                                                   
reiterated he doesn't want kids drinking alcohol or using drugs.                                                                
He would like to see it recriminalized so that a judge is put in                                                                
charge of the situation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1309                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked Mr. Hyde what he thinks would be an                                                              
effective deterrent.  Has G.L.A.D. had a chance to talk to kids                                                                 
affected by this, and does it have any suggestions on what to do to                                                             
encourage kids who are underage not to use alcohol?                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1368                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HYDE replied yes G.L.A.D. has had that opportunity.  Some                                                                   
suggestions were community service, treatment and evaluation                                                                    
specific to youths, addressing needs, speaking to them on their                                                                 
level, and taking away their time.  For example, his kid who is                                                                 
part of a cool gang would not think it is cool to wear a bright                                                                 
orange suit and pick up cans.  The process is such that most kids                                                               
talk to a judge via the telephone which doesn't have the same                                                                   
effect as going to court.  Having to face that judge, would really                                                              
get their attention.  He has heard kids describe the process as a                                                               
joke.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1503                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI said it seems that the penalty is                                                                      
invisible.  Who sees a driver's license anyway and a person can                                                                 
still drive as long as that person doesn't get caught.  She likes                                                               
the suggestion of community service because of the importance of                                                                
image and free time being taken away compared to another revocation                                                             
that hasn't had an impact anyway.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1565                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HYDE mentioned in quite a few bush community there aren't any                                                               
cars or a license is not required to drive.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Juanita Hensley [Division of Motor Vehicles,                                                                
Department of Administration] whether a driver's license is needed                                                              
to drive a snowmobile or a 3-wheeler.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1651                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JUANITA HENSLEY, Administrator, Director's Office, Division of                                                                  
Motor Vehicles, Department of Administration, replied yes.  A                                                                   
vehicle does not need to be registered, however, if the village or                                                              
community has fewer than 499 average cars per day on any particular                                                             
roadway.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT said, based on Ms. Hensley's answer, then there                                                                   
should be some impact in rural Alaska.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1692                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VIRGINIA ESPENSHADE, Executive Director, Kenai Peninsula Youth                                                                  
Court, testified via teleconference from Kenai.  She has practiced                                                              
law in Homer for the past 14 years.  She is in support of parts of                                                              
the bill and in opposition to parts.  She strongly supports any                                                                 
legislative change that would provide young adults with a way to                                                                
earn their driver's licenses back, especially for the kids with                                                                 
multiple convictions.  We are setting up these young adults by                                                                  
taking away any future for them.  They are facing years without a                                                               
driver's license.  If they can't get jobs, they can't provide for                                                               
their families.  She is also in favor of using the youth courts as                                                              
judicial entities to hear these violations.  In Homer, the youth                                                                
court hears minor consuming and possessing offenses and has already                                                             
adjudicated ten of them.  It's an ongoing process and is being                                                                  
developed as it goes.  It is based on a community consensus of all                                                              
the parties involved.  That understands that wouldn't work in every                                                             
community.  She is concerned that the bill sets up the youth court                                                              
as an alternative administrative agency.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT interjected and stated the current version of the                                                                 
bill does not reference youth court.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. ESPENSHADE further stated that peer adjudication can be a big                                                               
part of the community response.  The kids in Homer appear before                                                                
peers wearing black robes.  The consequences include an essay and                                                               
community work service.  She asked the committee members to                                                                     
consider that when trying to fix this problem.  It is up to the                                                                 
legislature to fix it because it will take at least another year                                                                
for the courts to sort it out.  The appeal that Mr. Jordan                                                                      
referenced earlier was a two-two split, therefore, it doesn't                                                                   
control any other court.  The legal status of the statute is cloudy                                                             
at best.  She applauded the committee members for looking at the                                                                
whole issue and asked them to look at individual communities having                                                             
input in order to solve their particular problems.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1873                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT said he agrees that a two-two split is not binding,                                                               
but it is persuasive.  He asked Ms. Espenshade to comment on a                                                                  
letter dated March 10, 1999 from Linda Johnson [Legal Advisor,                                                                  
Anchorage Youth Court] which indicates the youth courts do not have                                                             
the authority to act on any alcohol-related issue.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1905                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. ESPENSHADE replied, according to her understanding, Title 47                                                                
authorizes the Department of Health and Social Services to deal                                                                 
with juvenile crime which excludes alcohol cases.  But, according                                                               
to the (indisc.) version of Title 47, DFYS [Division of Family and                                                              
Youth Services] cannot refer alcohol cases to youth courts, but it                                                              
can refer misdemeanor cases to them, which is happening across the                                                              
state.  The youth court in Homer is private and for non-profit.  It                                                             
has entered into agreements with the police departments and                                                                     
district attorneys, and is based on a public consensus.  She agrees                                                             
that an amendment to Title 47 would make it much clearer, that it                                                               
is something the youth courts could do.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1986                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LINDA WRIGHT testified via teleconference from Kenai.  She is                                                                   
concerned about Section 6 of the bill.  She wondered why there is                                                               
an age barrier at 20 because 17, 18 or 19 year olds may be in                                                                   
school or have dependent children.  In addition, the "more than one                                                             
year left" provision means to her that a person would have to have                                                              
at least two citations in order to be considered for reinstatement.                                                             
While she is glad to see the addition of school and dependent care                                                              
added, under these terms, a person with one citation who is 18                                                                  
years old would not qualify.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2075                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT said the application for reinstatement is filed at                                                                
least two years after the person's license, permit, or privilege                                                                
has been revoked.  It was changed from one to two years.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2085                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT indicated that the age limit has been taken                                                                
out as well.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT stated those changes were a policy call made by this                                                              
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT asked whether a person has to have more than two years                                                               
(indisc.--coughing) in order to qualify for a privilege of a                                                                    
driver's license.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT replied correct.  He asked Ms. Hensley to answer the                                                              
question further.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2115                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY said, according to this version of the bill, Section 4                                                              
says an individual may apply for a limited license privilege.  In                                                               
the case of her son who had his driver's license revoked for a                                                                  
first offense, he would be able to apply for a limited license to                                                               
go to-and-from school, if he can show proof that he is in fact                                                                  
attending school such as a class schedule.  He wouldn't be able to                                                              
go anywhere else, however.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2150                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT said the reinstatement for a temporary license was                                                                
increased from one to two years, so if a person had multiple                                                                    
offenses he would have to do at least two years.  Therefore, a                                                                  
21-year-old could apply and not find himself with that much of a                                                                
penalty at all.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. WRIGHT asked whether this would allow a person to apply for a                                                               
provisional license to go to work.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2188                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENSLEY replied, providing the person meets the requirements                                                                
under the law and is eligible to drive, a person could get a                                                                    
provisional license to drive.  The DMV has taken a fairly liberal                                                               
approach when issuing limited licenses to youth drivers.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2240                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JACK HARSHFIELD testified via teleconference from Homer.  He is 21                                                              
with a family and a fiance who is 19.  They have both been affected                                                             
by this law.  He had six minor consumptions and pled guilty to all                                                              
of them.  He will not get his driver's license back until the year                                                              
2004.  His fiance had three convictions of which two were thrown                                                                
out and she will not get her license back until next year.  When a                                                              
person is 16, he thinks he knows everything and the world, but                                                                  
people change.  He now realizes those actions were really dumb, but                                                             
he is still getting fined for something that he did when he was a                                                               
kid.  It is really hard because both he and his fiance don't have                                                               
a driver's license and they have a kid on the way.  It is hard to                                                               
push a stroller around in the winter.  In addition, many jobs                                                                   
require a driver's license, and if a person can't get a job he                                                                  
can't get money.  As a result, some resort to petty theft.  When he                                                             
was 16, he didn't care if he got caught again because he wasn't                                                                 
going to get his license back for a long time anyway.  Now, that he                                                             
has grown up, has a family and responsibilities, he wishes that he                                                              
wouldn't have drank when he was underage.  He wishes that he could                                                              
change it, but he can't.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2367                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Harshfield to tell him the circumstances                                                                
behind his fiance's two convictions that were dismissed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARSHFIELD replied two were dismissed in court by a judge, but                                                              
the DMV proceeded with them because she didn't read the fine print                                                              
requiring her to go back within seven days to file for an appeal.                                                               
She now has to file for a late appeal, but there is still no                                                                    
guarantee that she will get her driver's license back.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2415                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Harshfield whether he is aware of any of                                                                
his friends that were also cited under the "Use It, Lose It" law                                                                
who had their driver's licenses revoked when they were not using                                                                
alcohol.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARSHFIELD replied there was a case down at the beach where two                                                             
people were cited who were not drinking because they were the                                                                   
designated drivers.  Their cases were dismissed in court.  They                                                                 
still had their driver's licenses revoked for 90 days, however.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2452                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked Mr. Harshfield whether any of his                                                                    
violations were related to using alcohol while driving a car.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-27, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARSHFIELD replied yes.  He got a DWI (driving while                                                                        
intoxicated) while driving a 3-wheeler.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0033                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI stated that there is another case before the supreme                                                              
court on the "Use It, Lose It" law.  The record will be certified                                                               
this month and cited before a year.  She noted that the court of                                                                
appeals has upheld the "Use It, Lose It" law as constitutional.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Ms. Carpeneti to provide him a copy of the                                                                  
court of appeals case.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0064                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that the bill will be held over for further                                                             
consideration.                                                                                                                  

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